Talk:Licenses/NC

Compilations

I quite agree with your conclusions. I'm trying to put together a CD with free music to be sold at a nominal fee in order to cover production, and I can't include CC-NC material on this. Particulaly with music, most of it is NC. These musicians simply do not get distributed.

One way to get around this sort of situation would be another CC module, let's call it NP, for non-profit.

I have tried to make CC people aware of these problems, but there has been no response so far.

Theo Schmidt

I would suggest lobbying for the option suggested at the bottom of the article, i.e. to raise awareness of the consequences of NC licenses on the Creative Commons license selection screen. An NP license would help in your specific case, but it would still inherit many of the problems described in the article. Tautologically speaking, the more permissive the license is, the less friction there will be.--Erik 11:36, 25 September 2005 (CEST)

Collecting societies

Excellent overview, Erik

I totally agree there needs to be more education about NC issues. The current FAQ from Creative Commons could benefit from your argument, especially point 2.4 from the current FAQ (http://creativecommons.org/faq). As far as problems of mixing free (software) with non-free (nc-cc documentation) goes, point 1.19 should be expanded too.

You did not mention the issues with Collecting Societies: It is deemed necessary to use an NC licence to collect statutory or other royalties (See: http://creativecommons.org/faq point 1.9 - 1.11). Although it must be added that this issue is largely moot because hardly any Collecting Societies recognize CC licensed works, but this might change in the future.

Patrick Peiffer, cc-lu www.luxcommons.lu

Interesting point. I'm increasingly seeing a need to distinguish arguments by the type and content of media. Don't get me wrong: I don't think NC should be used at all. But arguing this in the context of music is quite a bit different from the context of science and education (and probably more difficult). With regard to collecting societies, they are a dated and frequently unfair model of distributing royalties; using an NC license to benefit from that system is rather unoriginal.

I find it much more exciting to let new revenue and compensation models evolve around truly free content. One thing which I think could help with that is additional metadata that can be used to reward artists. A global, unique identifier would probably make sense for that. E-mail addresses seem like a natural choice, but are unfortunatley prone to spam; perhaps a registry is needed. What I have in mind is that, when you broadcast a song by an artist whose work is under CC-BY, you might be required to say: "This was The Lonely Tentacles, Commons ID 84029." This ID could then in turn be used to make a quick donation if you like the artist's work, or to support their ongoing work.--Erik 19:49, 28 September 2005 (CEST)

French articles

Hi Erik,

We have a bunch of articles in French about Creative Commons on our Web site Libroscope, notably:

• http://www.libroscope.org/Non-commercial-est-ce-cela-qui ("Non-commercial: is it important in so-called free licenses?") addresses the nocivity of NC licenses under the "social entrepreneur" POV
• http://www.libroscope.org/Des-contenus-libres-pour-les ("Free contents for free software") explains why free software needs free contents, and why non-commercial licenses (or licenses prohibiting derivative works) are not applicable for contents bundled with free software; thus creating a segregation between the world of software and other contents

I didn't want to add these links myself to the article but, if you think it is useful, you may add them. (most of our articles are published under the Free Art License by the way, which is a very clear free and copyleft license for works of art, literature... http://artlibre.org/licence.php/lalgb.html)

Regards

Antoine (antoine //at// pitrou **dot** net)

Hello Antoine,

thanks for the links. I added them to Licenses/NC/fr; it would be cool if a French translation could eventually be written there as well.--Erik 17:57, 28 September 2005 (CEST)

What is commercial use?

A few questions to ponder : http://wiki.creativecommons.org/wiki/NonCommercial_use_cases

Interesting. It would be nice to have more definitive answers, though. ;-) Some of the listed scenarios are also fairly obvious. A version trimmed down to borderline examples with legal commentary would be helpful.--Erik 21:15, 29 September 2005 (CEST)

What about NC and SA together?

So it seems to me that if you have both the Non Commercial and Share Alike in your license you might be covered. Eg. I publish a song under http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-sa/2.5 . Anyone wanting to use my song would have to either adopt my license, not use it or arrange for a commercial license with me. No?

Seems to me this would help promote the expansion of CC and protect me from folks making a buck off my work without compensation... no?

--dasspunk

No, BY-NC-SA is worse than simple BY-NC. All the disadvantages of NC licenses outlined in this article apply to BY-NC-SA as well, with the additional factor that any derivative work must be NC-licensed as well. That is, I'm not even allowed to charge for my own improvements of the work, or let anyone else sell it, as long as I'm building on your BY-NC-SA work to begin with. BY-NC-SA does not mean that I'm allowed to make commercial use if I make my own contributions freely available, if this is what you thought.--Erik 21:47, 15 October 2005 (CEST)

Notes

• Clarify/summarize reasons for the whole section about copyright terms, along with other time expiry mechanisms
• More examples for NC uses one may permit: student play [1]
• Emphasize larger dissemination as key advantage of free licenses
• "Large, evil corporations" are often much more efficient at doing things than individuals due to economies of scale
• Reference [2] [3]

--Erik Möller 02:32, 14 February 2007 (CET) T

Permitted to lead??

What an odd closing remark. Permitted by whom? Apologists for capital? Capitalists (like Lessig) use a disingenuous call for "unity" to subvert the movement against intellectual property. Wannabe fence-menders fall for it every time. They ought to study the consequences of Dmitroff's "United Front" and how "unity" with liberal trade unions destroyed the socialist labour movement. Some of us are not interested in fixing IP for the interests of Property, some of see the fight against IP as a part of the fight against property itself. It is very telling then, that socialists should not be permitted to lead. Is unity more important than justice? --212.91.238.215 12:20, 16 February 2007 (CET) (Dmytri Kleiner dk@telekommunisten.net, http://www.telekommunisten.net)

Very one-sided

One major issue is that a for-profit allowable license dramatically reduces the number of images one can use, as well as bars from use many thousands of images from, for example, the Australian and UK governments, and places fair-use into serious question. This essay mentions the German WP and the few (1000) images provided by the commercial company, but fails to mention that the price of that commercial use was to delete and bar from use all fair use images on the Project. There are always trade-offs, and a stubborn insistence on for-profit allowable is always traded off in quality in one way or another. For an encyclopedia, it is purely stupid to trade-off a substantial amount of quality for a radical version of "free". 72.153.142.242 06:19, 17 February 2007 (CET)

The German Wikipedia DVD had nothing whatsoever to do with the decision not to allow fair use on the project. I know, because I was intimately involved in that process (and argued in favor of fair use -- it was pretty close).--Erik Möller 07:14, 17 February 2007 (CET)

That particular DVD is irrelevant. While perhaps not proximal to the decision, such use has everything to do with the removal of fair use images and the inevitable degradation of quality. This by Kat Walsh, toward the bottom of the page on this date, has a particularly enlightening clarifying statement from Walsh: ""Free' is a higher priority than 'good'." To even be so much as close to okay with that in an encyclopedia is little other that demagoguery over "free". 70.149.84.178 22:36, 17 February 2007 (CET)