Version 1.1 of the definition has been released. Please help updating it, contribute translations, and help us with the design of logos and buttons to identify free cultural works and licenses!

Difference between revisions of "Talk:Libre"

From Definition of Free Cultural Works
Jump to navigation Jump to search
m (→‎Process: Separating "Suggested Process" from "Comments on the Process")
(Moved comments on process to come after the process. Added a discussion section on versioning. A few other minor changes.)
 
Line 26: Line 26:
 
First prize for me would be having the word "libre" in the title and text of the root definition ([http://wikieducator.org/Say_Libre rationale]) - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT).
 
First prize for me would be having the word "libre" in the title and text of the root definition ([http://wikieducator.org/Say_Libre rationale]) - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT).
  
Second prize is just continuing with the ''status quo'' of having a matching version as we currently have [[Libre|here]] (which followed development of the root definition).
+
Second prize is just continuing with the ''status quo'' of having a matching version as we currently have [[Libre|here]] (which followed development of the [[definition|root definition]]).
  
 
= Process =
 
= Process =
 
== Comments on ==
 
 
Your process is backwards. There is no stable 1.1 definition of libre works and to lie about it just because there are some external links to it is something I will not support. [[User:Cov|Cov]]
 
  
 
== Suggested Process ==
 
== Suggested Process ==
Line 41: Line 37:
  
 
* [[Talk:Definition/Unstable|Engage with any process to update the root definition]] and participate constructively while suggesting use of the word "libre" where appropriate.
 
* [[Talk:Definition/Unstable|Engage with any process to update the root definition]] and participate constructively while suggesting use of the word "libre" where appropriate.
* In parallel, develop a new version of the [[Libre|Libre Cultural Works Definition]] as the "Libre Works Definition" (see [[User:Cov|Cov]]'s suggestion below)<ref>Originally, I did not want to develop a separate version (too many discussion venues) but rather just participate in the development of the next version and try to persuade that community. Applying both strategies is more proactive. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) early May.</ref> (i.e. the "[[Libre/Unstable|unstable]]" version under development).
+
* In parallel, develop a new version of the [[Libre|Libre Cultural Works Definition]] as the "Libre Works Definition" (see [[User:Cov|Cov]]'s suggestion below)<ref>Originally, I did not want to develop a separate version (too many discussion venues) but rather just participate in the development of the next version and try to persuade that community. Applying both strategies is more proactive. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 3 May 2013.</ref> (i.e. the "[[Libre/Unstable|unstable]]" version under development).
 
** Is "Libre Definition" too minimalist? - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
 
** Is "Libre Definition" too minimalist? - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
* If not successful in ''leading'' the process and establishing "libre" in the root definition, then revert to ''following'' with an updated "libre" version (closely based on the next version of the Free Cultural Works definition) as we did [[Libre|here]] for 1.1.
+
* If not successful in ''leading'' the process and establishing "libre" in the root definition, then revert to ''following'' with an updated "libre" version (closely based on the next version of the Free Cultural Works definition) as we did [[Libre|here]] (last time round) for 1.1.
 +
 
 +
== Comments on the process ==
 +
 
 +
Your process is backwards. There is no stable 1.1 definition of libre works and to lie about it just because there are some external links to it is something I will not support. [[User:Cov|Cov]] (9 May 2013)
 +
 
 +
:: See '''Versioning''' below. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
  
 
= Suggestions =
 
= Suggestions =
Line 52: Line 54:
 
*** I also prefer this<ref>For me "Cultural" implies social sciences, humanities and the arts. Having said that, there is something appealing about the word given the [[w:Culture|history of the word culture]]. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)</ref>. However, we need to ensure that any changes we make are taken into the [[Definition|root definition]]. So far this page has been ''following'' the root definition and matches the stable version 1.1. Perhaps we should create a separate page for the "Libre Works" definition which can ''lead'' to the new root definition and become version 2.0 of the "Libre Works Definition"?<ref>I will go ahead and set [[Libre/Unstable|this]] up, as [[Libre|this page]] needs to match the current [[Definition|stable 1.1 root version]] for the time being (until a new version is released). - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)</ref>
 
*** I also prefer this<ref>For me "Cultural" implies social sciences, humanities and the arts. Having said that, there is something appealing about the word given the [[w:Culture|history of the word culture]]. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)</ref>. However, we need to ensure that any changes we make are taken into the [[Definition|root definition]]. So far this page has been ''following'' the root definition and matches the stable version 1.1. Perhaps we should create a separate page for the "Libre Works" definition which can ''lead'' to the new root definition and become version 2.0 of the "Libre Works Definition"?<ref>I will go ahead and set [[Libre/Unstable|this]] up, as [[Libre|this page]] needs to match the current [[Definition|stable 1.1 root version]] for the time being (until a new version is released). - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)</ref>
 
* ...
 
* ...
 +
 +
== Versioning ==
 +
 +
This article inherited all the work and knowledge contributed to version 1.1 of the [[Definition|Free Cultural Works Definition]] and hence its version number. It is almost identical word for word except that the word "libre" is used instead of "free" where appropriate throughout. An objection has been raised to this approach under "Comments on the process" above. What is the best approach to versioning of [[Libre|this version]] and [[Libre/Unstable|the next]]? Comment and discussion below is welcome. Thanks. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
 +
 +
:: My take for [[Libre|this version]] is that it is the same definition (as the [[Definition|Free Cultural Works Definition version 1.1]]) just using a less ambiguous word for the key concept ("libre" for "free" as in freedom). It corresponds exactly and should have the same version number reflecting the work that went into the definition from which it was directly derived. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
 +
 +
:: For the next version, it depends on how the above hybrid process pans out. Personally, I would prefer that "libre" is worked into the [[Definition/Unstable|next root definition]] and that there will be no need for a separate page. If we end up with a matching version with "libre" replacing "free" as we do here, I'd probably go with the same version number ... but I am open to suggestions and can be persuaded otherwise. - [[User:KTucker|K]] ([[User talk:KTucker|talk]]) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
 +
  
 
= References =
 
= References =
  
 
<references/>
 
<references/>

Latest revision as of 19:36, 12 May 2013

Rationale[edit]

The word "libre" is in danger of being diluted.

See for example the thread "[okfn-discuss] Problems of nomenclature" which led to the Libre page on Wikipedia.

Diluting the term will eliminate its advantages:

  • "libre" disambiguates "free as in freedom" from "free as in beer" (gratis)
  • "libre" is used extensively in free/libre and open source software (FLOSS) and free/libre and open knowledge contexts to emphasise the freedom perspective.

This is not intended as a "fork".

Links relevant to the rationale for establishing "libre" in the title and text of the FCW definition or for having a separate "libre" definition:

K 15:51, 4 March 2012 (EST)

Aim[edit]

First prize for me would be having the word "libre" in the title and text of the root definition (rationale) - K (talk) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT).

Second prize is just continuing with the status quo of having a matching version as we currently have here (which followed development of the root definition).

Process[edit]

Suggested Process[edit]

Version 1.1 of the Libre Cultural Works Definition (currently this page) is intended to match the root Free Cultural Works Definition (version 1.1 for both). Changes should be minor as there are external links to this page as the "Libre Cultural Works Definition".

For those promoting inclusion of the word "libre" in the Free Cultural Works Definition to disambiguate "free" and reduce confusion, a suggested process of engagement is to:

  • Engage with any process to update the root definition and participate constructively while suggesting use of the word "libre" where appropriate.
  • In parallel, develop a new version of the Libre Cultural Works Definition as the "Libre Works Definition" (see Cov's suggestion below)[1] (i.e. the "unstable" version under development).
    • Is "Libre Definition" too minimalist? - K (talk) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
  • If not successful in leading the process and establishing "libre" in the root definition, then revert to following with an updated "libre" version (closely based on the next version of the Free Cultural Works definition) as we did here (last time round) for 1.1.

Comments on the process[edit]

Your process is backwards. There is no stable 1.1 definition of libre works and to lie about it just because there are some external links to it is something I will not support. Cov (9 May 2013)

See Versioning below. - K (talk) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

Suggestions[edit]

  • Work the word "libre" into the Free Cultural Works Definition making its meaning clear (free as in freedom as defined here). - K 15:51, 4 March 2012 (EST)
    • How about "merging" simply by changing the title of the main definition to "Free Cultural Works and Libre Resources" or "Free/Libre Cultural Works" or "Free Cultural Works aka Libre Cultural Works" etc.? - K 07:01, 5 March 2012 (EST)
    • Cov has suggested "Libre Works Definition" (currently at Libre/Unstable).
      • I also prefer this[2]. However, we need to ensure that any changes we make are taken into the root definition. So far this page has been following the root definition and matches the stable version 1.1. Perhaps we should create a separate page for the "Libre Works" definition which can lead to the new root definition and become version 2.0 of the "Libre Works Definition"?[3]
  • ...

Versioning[edit]

This article inherited all the work and knowledge contributed to version 1.1 of the Free Cultural Works Definition and hence its version number. It is almost identical word for word except that the word "libre" is used instead of "free" where appropriate throughout. An objection has been raised to this approach under "Comments on the process" above. What is the best approach to versioning of this version and the next? Comment and discussion below is welcome. Thanks. - K (talk) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)

My take for this version is that it is the same definition (as the Free Cultural Works Definition version 1.1) just using a less ambiguous word for the key concept ("libre" for "free" as in freedom). It corresponds exactly and should have the same version number reflecting the work that went into the definition from which it was directly derived. - K (talk) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)
For the next version, it depends on how the above hybrid process pans out. Personally, I would prefer that "libre" is worked into the next root definition and that there will be no need for a separate page. If we end up with a matching version with "libre" replacing "free" as we do here, I'd probably go with the same version number ... but I am open to suggestions and can be persuaded otherwise. - K (talk) 19:36, 12 May 2013 (EDT)


References[edit]

  1. Originally, I did not want to develop a separate version (too many discussion venues) but rather just participate in the development of the next version and try to persuade that community. Applying both strategies is more proactive. - K (talk) 3 May 2013.
  2. For me "Cultural" implies social sciences, humanities and the arts. Having said that, there is something appealing about the word given the history of the word culture. - K (talk) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)
  3. I will go ahead and set this up, as this page needs to match the current stable 1.1 root version for the time being (until a new version is released). - K (talk) 03:21, 3 May 2013 (EDT)